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Originally posted by BigRedDot: Today the definition of a first-rate soldier seems to start with being a man and then glorifying manly attributes, so I guess that there are no first-rate women soldiers today. The careful step-by-step approach is pretty much how integration of women in the armed services has happened, AFAIK, and while the issue of "openly gay" servicemen and vomen, I suppose is a bit different as they're already thereI'm not sure it's that different in the end. I know there are several levels of discussion going on, and maybe we are discussing on different levels. I am saying that if the principal reason for institutional discrimination is that the flawed nature of military servicemen would result in disruption of critical function, then I can accept temporary delay; but I do not accept such flaws as being justification for permanent acceptance of institutional discrimination.

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But I think it's important to see our arguments in different lighting sometimes.

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Here We Go Again.....Gays\Military\DogPile....

There's nothing democratic about the military, and most rights don't apply to members of the armed forces. I'm not sure if I would feel comfortable sharing a sleeping bag or a shower with the man though; I'm not really very comfortable with that with straight guys and I'm not sure at what level my prudishness becomes a showstopper. I know this is not a proper argument, but I cannot explain it to someone who has not been there What they do in their free-personal time is no ones conserne. But I argue that integration should be a clear set goal that the military have a plan for implementing. If he cares about someone he's not going to talk about them behind their back or cheapen the relationship, and if he doesn't care But I think the problem lies in the military and in the straight men in the military and not in women or gay men.

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It would be really interesting to define a perfect sodier. The point is that there should not be discrimination, unless very clearly stated. Forgive me if I skim over the defensible, and concern myself with the arguable. Really, this is all it can do until society as a whole changes and learns to not just accept homosexuals, but put them on an equal moral and social standing. I think that women can be as good soldiers as men.

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